Hi Maryanne. I wanted to introduce myself because I’ve been a leading voice in the withdrawal/overmedicating kids space for years, and work closely with many of the folks you mention.
Your coverage on the topic has been excellent, and I’ve been so grateful given most of the folks with lived experience, like myself, have been shouting into the void for years.
I published my own overview of this atrocious study this morning, and my substack is dedicated to antidepressant withdrawal education, recovery, and the unintended side effects of medicating kids.
Much appreciated! Happy to be a resource for you as well. I lecture at universities on the topic whenever I get the chance and facilitate conversations with parents, often alongside my mom. It’s a mess out there for parents right now.
Once again anecdotal evidence, but in my medical practice I see numerous patients on antidepressants, usually SSRI's or SNRI's, who remain on them in perpetuity due to the severity of side effects when trying to wean off them.
I remember clearly in my general practice days being told these new wonder drugs were not addictive.
This entire industry is a disgrace. The fact that a patient remains on an SSRI indefinitely should be a red flag—it suggests the drug isn’t working. These medications were never intended for lifelong use, but somewhere along the way, marketing—and now psychiatrists—convince people they needed the drugs in order to "stay happy."
Maryanne, I agree with your post. I remember when my first husband die. I was fine until the holidays. It hit me so hard I didn’t know what to think. Depression was horrible. My Dr put me on one for a year. Interestingly, I had to half the small dose because it gave me migraines! Flashing light and a blurred vision. After the one year, I told my Dr I thought I could handle it. Followed his directions and came off. Surprise! Depression BUT I felt I would be fine and I made it! People need to think about what’s the best plan. This is not to contradict you article just a thought. Too many people are not trying to handle their situation. Prayer works also. I could not have made it without God’s help!
I completely agree with you, Margaret. This isn’t about stopping people from taking medication—it’s about ensuring they’re fully informed about the challenges they may face when trying to come off it. It’s about informed consent. By deliberately downplaying the difficulty of withdrawing from antidepressants, as this study has done, the authors have done a disservice to patients.
I agree! I didn’t want to take anything! Why people just fall in line is so sad! I hope HHS will require more studies before just releasing new ones! Not progress when people don’t know the facts.
Trial conclusions outcomes depend on design and this is where independence from drug companies and listening to those with real patient experience is so relevant
What about those patients on the drugs who feel numb, depressed and zombie-like, where their docs just up doses or swop out with different drugs? The side effects of these drugs, excessive weight gain, for one, is enough to keep you depressed. Would someone only on these for 6-18 months have the same problems?
Maryanne, the thing is that all "antidepressants" are not the same. Some short-acting or more potent SSRIs and SNRIs (like Venlafaxine, Paroxetine or probably Escitalopram) definitely have a (sometimes prolonged) withdrawal (or discontinuation) syndrome. Particularly if stopped abruptly after prolonged periods of high dose treatment. If you don't believe me, ask ChatGPT.
So discontinuation syndrome severity in this study has been "watered down" by the inclusion of less potent medicines so that the syndrome does not seem clinically important. In my opinion, it is designed to reassure.
I can't find any declaration of interest in the paper, but I do note the declared interests of the authors of the unanimous "expert reaction". I also note the limited discussion here of your worries concerning the validity of the "placebo" control group and the short follow-up period.
According to the UK government, a surprising 17% of the adult population now take these drugs, sometimes for many years. There is a lot of money involved. They note "There have been very few high-quality research studies on medicine dependence and withdrawal, and their prevention and treatment, in the past 10 years." I don't think this Meta-Analysis adds much.
Yes, agreed—all good points. It's unfortunate that the authors dismissed the more focused studies by Horowitz and colleagues, especially given that the RCTs included in their meta-analysis were fundamentally flawed and short in duration. As Cooper Davis put it, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Hi Maryanne. I wanted to introduce myself because I’ve been a leading voice in the withdrawal/overmedicating kids space for years, and work closely with many of the folks you mention.
Your coverage on the topic has been excellent, and I’ve been so grateful given most of the folks with lived experience, like myself, have been shouting into the void for years.
I published my own overview of this atrocious study this morning, and my substack is dedicated to antidepressant withdrawal education, recovery, and the unintended side effects of medicating kids.
Keep going. I will too.
-Brooke
https://brookesiem.substack.com/p/152-garbage-in-garbage-out-every
Terrific Brooke, I will be sure to share you work. Thank you for your dedication to kids. 🙏
Much appreciated! Happy to be a resource for you as well. I lecture at universities on the topic whenever I get the chance and facilitate conversations with parents, often alongside my mom. It’s a mess out there for parents right now.
Appreciate you 🙏
Once again anecdotal evidence, but in my medical practice I see numerous patients on antidepressants, usually SSRI's or SNRI's, who remain on them in perpetuity due to the severity of side effects when trying to wean off them.
I remember clearly in my general practice days being told these new wonder drugs were not addictive.
As always, follow the money.
This entire industry is a disgrace. The fact that a patient remains on an SSRI indefinitely should be a red flag—it suggests the drug isn’t working. These medications were never intended for lifelong use, but somewhere along the way, marketing—and now psychiatrists—convince people they needed the drugs in order to "stay happy."
Gareth. My mother got onto anti depressants in her 40s and never got off them. She could not due to the withdrawal issues.
Maybe others have more success but she simply could not get off them.
Sorry to hear that Chris.
It seems to be a very common story.
Science Media Centre = "Dastardly Dum-Dums" 😳
"In reality, these symptoms are often physiological responses to withdrawal."
Imagine being a doctor handing our pills...and not understanding that...
Maryanne, I agree with your post. I remember when my first husband die. I was fine until the holidays. It hit me so hard I didn’t know what to think. Depression was horrible. My Dr put me on one for a year. Interestingly, I had to half the small dose because it gave me migraines! Flashing light and a blurred vision. After the one year, I told my Dr I thought I could handle it. Followed his directions and came off. Surprise! Depression BUT I felt I would be fine and I made it! People need to think about what’s the best plan. This is not to contradict you article just a thought. Too many people are not trying to handle their situation. Prayer works also. I could not have made it without God’s help!
I completely agree with you, Margaret. This isn’t about stopping people from taking medication—it’s about ensuring they’re fully informed about the challenges they may face when trying to come off it. It’s about informed consent. By deliberately downplaying the difficulty of withdrawing from antidepressants, as this study has done, the authors have done a disservice to patients.
I agree! I didn’t want to take anything! Why people just fall in line is so sad! I hope HHS will require more studies before just releasing new ones! Not progress when people don’t know the facts.
Scary. We need the truth.
The system ensures the fix is in.
Trial conclusions outcomes depend on design and this is where independence from drug companies and listening to those with real patient experience is so relevant
What about those patients on the drugs who feel numb, depressed and zombie-like, where their docs just up doses or swop out with different drugs? The side effects of these drugs, excessive weight gain, for one, is enough to keep you depressed. Would someone only on these for 6-18 months have the same problems?
Maryanne, the thing is that all "antidepressants" are not the same. Some short-acting or more potent SSRIs and SNRIs (like Venlafaxine, Paroxetine or probably Escitalopram) definitely have a (sometimes prolonged) withdrawal (or discontinuation) syndrome. Particularly if stopped abruptly after prolonged periods of high dose treatment. If you don't believe me, ask ChatGPT.
So discontinuation syndrome severity in this study has been "watered down" by the inclusion of less potent medicines so that the syndrome does not seem clinically important. In my opinion, it is designed to reassure.
I can't find any declaration of interest in the paper, but I do note the declared interests of the authors of the unanimous "expert reaction". I also note the limited discussion here of your worries concerning the validity of the "placebo" control group and the short follow-up period.
According to the UK government, a surprising 17% of the adult population now take these drugs, sometimes for many years. There is a lot of money involved. They note "There have been very few high-quality research studies on medicine dependence and withdrawal, and their prevention and treatment, in the past 10 years." I don't think this Meta-Analysis adds much.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5fc658398fa8f5474c800149/PHE_PMR_report_Dec2020.pdf
Yes, agreed—all good points. It's unfortunate that the authors dismissed the more focused studies by Horowitz and colleagues, especially given that the RCTs included in their meta-analysis were fundamentally flawed and short in duration. As Cooper Davis put it, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Laura Delano (mentioned in the article) was just interviewed on Liz Tucker’s podcast, What your GP doesn't tell you.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4ZX2GoLWwp37TUbSwVyVbh?si=Y0gtGOITRPC83Sb8GTi6QA
Thanks Gary, she’s great and her experience is important to share. 🙏